Comments on: Donation from O’Reilly http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:35:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.6 by: Rich Sigfrit http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-239 Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:40:44 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-239 Well, I dig Dave's opinion. It makes sense. I think Brian naively put the link up as a way to show that someone other than podcasters is taking notice, without realizing some people would think that they are sponsoring. I would hope the link is to show you what book is being made available AFTER the conference. If Dave is going to every media outlet that he can, his show or other, and ripping PodcasterCon, then that’s bad business. He said he can’t support it due to commercialism, and it looks like the book is an example of that. That the book is going to be given only AFTER tells me that O’Reilly has nothing more to do with this than putting their product near a market where people will be charged up and looking for material. That’s smart business. I commend Dave on his beliefs; I admire him on his actions, though I think that they may be a bit premature. We don’t know all the details, and any low blows by anyone are a more than a little cheap. I’m sure they were spoken out of passion for the conference, since a big name dropping out is never a good sign. The feelings behind the actions make sense, though the actions on everyone’s behalf should be re-thought. Though I would’ve liked to meet Dave, he isn’t a deal breaker for me. I’ve been doing an Internet audio show before podcasting came along. Podcast isn’t an art form, it’s a distribution method, and his contributions are massive to the process. I was hoping to thank him in person. I think it’s a shame that he’s canceled his trip. Its funny that a medium that is only conveyed by talking can have such bad communication skills Well, I dig Dave’s opinion. It makes sense. I think Brian naively put the link up as a way to show that someone other than podcasters is taking notice, without realizing some people would think that they are sponsoring. I would hope the link is to show you what book is being made available AFTER the conference. If Dave is going to every media outlet that he can, his show or other, and ripping PodcasterCon, then that’s bad business. He said he can’t support it due to commercialism, and it looks like the book is an example of that. That the book is going to be given only AFTER tells me that O’Reilly has nothing more to do with this than putting their product near a market where people will be charged up and looking for material. That’s smart business. I commend Dave on his beliefs; I admire him on his actions, though I think that they may be a bit premature. We don’t know all the details, and any low blows by anyone are a more than a little cheap. I’m sure they were spoken out of passion for the conference, since a big name dropping out is never a good sign. The feelings behind the actions make sense, though the actions on everyone’s behalf should be re-thought. Though I would’ve liked to meet Dave, he isn’t a deal breaker for me. I’ve been doing an Internet audio show before podcasting came along. Podcast isn’t an art form, it’s a distribution method, and his contributions are massive to the process. I was hoping to thank him in person. I think it’s a shame that he’s canceled his trip.

Its funny that a medium that is only conveyed by talking can have such bad communication skills

]]> by: Ruby Sinreich http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-238 Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:01:50 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-238 For his own sake, it would be nice if Dave reconsidered his absolutist stand on PodcasterCon, but it really won't make that much difference to the conference. Dave's behavior is simply closing doors for himself, something which he can easily afford to do in his position. 200 people are still going to come to Chapel Hill and share and learn and make media and have fun. Not having superstars like Dave there will allow us to focus more on each other and may lead to a more interesting and engaging experience for the rest of us. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone on the 7th! For his own sake, it would be nice if Dave reconsidered his absolutist stand on PodcasterCon, but it really won’t make that much difference to the conference. Dave’s behavior is simply closing doors for himself, something which he can easily afford to do in his position.

200 people are still going to come to Chapel Hill and share and learn and make media and have fun. Not having superstars like Dave there will allow us to focus more on each other and may lead to a more interesting and engaging experience for the rest of us. I’m looking forward to seeing everyone on the 7th!

]]> by: Paul Fischer http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-233 Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:35:29 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-233 I was really excited to be meeting Dave Winer at PodcasterCon. It was not my only reason for going, but it was one of the top 5. Like Steve Eley, I am going mostly for the people. I am upset that Mr. Winer won't attend, but that is his decision. Dave, in my opinion, you're over reacting. Yes, the link on this page is overtly commercial. You are right, that link shouldn't be on this page. But I think you're wrong about the book. I don't think it's going to have a lot of impact on the convention and seeing as it will be given away after the convention and at another location seems to me to be more than enough separation from the convention itself. Have you ever cooked chocolate? On tiny drop of water in a batch of chocolate will cause the whole thing to seize up and can easily ruin the whole thing. However, the batch can be saved if you invest the time and ingredients to do it. Within 3 hours of BrianR posting about the book, and after only one exchange back and forth, you chose to remove yourself from the conference. It wasn't until your post 3 days later that I really understood much of your objections. I wish you had taken the time to explain it better on day 1. Your final comment about this probably being the last conference you'll be involved it seems very short sighted. You are one of the people who helped to create this wonderful new medium we're all experimenting with. You are certainly someone we can all learn from. I wish you wouldn't see it like water in chocolate. One final thought: I didn't take BrianR's comment about you possibly having a problem with O'Reilly as a personal attack on you. He said he heard it from someone, so I took it as more of an inquiry to you, asking if you did have a problem with them. I certainly see how you can take is as a personal attack if you choose to. But, as we are so fond of saying on our Podcast, "you can't control the stimulus but you can control the response." Dave, please reconsider. I would still like to meet you and I think you can still provide a wealth of knowledge to PodcasterCon. I was really excited to be meeting Dave Winer at PodcasterCon. It was not my only reason for going, but it was one of the top 5. Like Steve Eley, I am going mostly for the people. I am upset that Mr. Winer won’t attend, but that is his decision.

Dave, in my opinion, you’re over reacting. Yes, the link on this page is overtly commercial. You are right, that link shouldn’t be on this page. But I think you’re wrong about the book. I don’t think it’s going to have a lot of impact on the convention and seeing as it will be given away after the convention and at another location seems to me to be more than enough separation from the convention itself.

Have you ever cooked chocolate? On tiny drop of water in a batch of chocolate will cause the whole thing to seize up and can easily ruin the whole thing. However, the batch can be saved if you invest the time and ingredients to do it.

Within 3 hours of BrianR posting about the book, and after only one exchange back and forth, you chose to remove yourself from the conference. It wasn’t until your post 3 days later that I really understood much of your objections. I wish you had taken the time to explain it better on day 1. Your final comment about this probably being the last conference you’ll be involved it seems very short sighted.

You are one of the people who helped to create this wonderful new medium we’re all experimenting with. You are certainly someone we can all learn from. I wish you wouldn’t see it like water in chocolate.

One final thought: I didn’t take BrianR’s comment about you possibly having a problem with O’Reilly as a personal attack on you. He said he heard it from someone, so I took it as more of an inquiry to you, asking if you did have a problem with them. I certainly see how you can take is as a personal attack if you choose to. But, as we are so fond of saying on our Podcast, “you can’t control the stimulus but you can control the response.”

Dave, please reconsider. I would still like to meet you and I think you can still provide a wealth of knowledge to PodcasterCon.

]]> by: Hugh Brackett http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-232 Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:15:00 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-232 Brian, I have absolutely no problem with the books. Please talk to the Heil people about getting some PR40 mics. Brian, I have absolutely no problem with the books. Please talk to the Heil people about getting some PR40 mics.

]]> by: Dave Winer http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-226 Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:23:06 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-226 People who make this personal are the ones exploiting things. Brian threw the first stone, and that played a bigger role in my decision than the books did. I didn't mention O'Reilly on my blog, frankly -- I don't think they're to blame here. If an event is non-commercial that's very plain and easy to understand, people could still buy the book if it's got value, or they could buy another publisher's book. Or O'Reilly could offer all podcasters a deal, whether or not they went to the conference. To tie a gift to participating in the conference is something a commercial vendor would like to do, of course. No surprise there. The problem is that the organizer is organizing it. I also reviewed the wiki, and I couldn't find any mention of the fact that this is a non-commercial event. It might be there, but I didn't find it. That, and my experience at a previous UNC blogging event that was also fuzzy about commercialism made my decision pretty clear. Being non-commercial isn't something you do casually or fuzzily, it's got to be something you're committed to. Brian works for organizations that are serious about it, so I'm pretty sure he understands. I think something else is going on behind the scenes that we aren't seeing. Now, I only made a decision for myself, not anyone else. If I could have withdrawn without making a statement, I would have. But a fair number of people signed up after I did, so I was concerned they were going expecting I would be there. I promoted the conference as I gave it my endorsement (I also contributed my own money). So I had to explain what I was doing. Maybe as a result this will be a better conference. I hope so. But I can't support it. Next time I'm going to be much more careful, as I have been in the past. I've not endorsed any books on podcasting, and this is the first and probably last conference I'll be involved in. People who make this personal are the ones exploiting things. Brian threw the first stone, and that played a bigger role in my decision than the books did.

I didn’t mention O’Reilly on my blog, frankly — I don’t think they’re to blame here. If an event is non-commercial that’s very plain and easy to understand, people could still buy the book if it’s got value, or they could buy another publisher’s book. Or O’Reilly could offer all podcasters a deal, whether or not they went to the conference. To tie a gift to participating in the conference is something a commercial vendor would like to do, of course. No surprise there. The problem is that the organizer is organizing it.

I also reviewed the wiki, and I couldn’t find any mention of the fact that this is a non-commercial event. It might be there, but I didn’t find it. That, and my experience at a previous UNC blogging event that was also fuzzy about commercialism made my decision pretty clear.

Being non-commercial isn’t something you do casually or fuzzily, it’s got to be something you’re committed to.

Brian works for organizations that are serious about it, so I’m pretty sure he understands. I think something else is going on behind the scenes that we aren’t seeing.

Now, I only made a decision for myself, not anyone else. If I could have withdrawn without making a statement, I would have. But a fair number of people signed up after I did, so I was concerned they were going expecting I would be there. I promoted the conference as I gave it my endorsement (I also contributed my own money). So I had to explain what I was doing.

Maybe as a result this will be a better conference. I hope so. But I can’t support it. Next time I’m going to be much more careful, as I have been in the past. I’ve not endorsed any books on podcasting, and this is the first and probably last conference I’ll be involved in.

]]> by: Jack http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-224 Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:45:03 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-224 Wow, you know someone has no case when they have to get personal and won't just stick to the issue. Did anyone notice the link to the book Podcasting Hacks at the top of this page takes you to the O'reilly website and has an add to cart button right there? Why is there a direct link to purchase a product of one of the sponsors in the annoucement that says "In an effort to keep overt product promotion out of PodcasterCon"? Not to mention, its really shady to make this annoucement 2 weeks before the event. Far too late for anyone to back out without loosing money. I totally understand Winer's frustration and anyone who wants to go after him personally re: O'reilly is spinning the issue just like another O'reilly you might have heard of. There's a link to buy a product in the same post that says 'we don't wanna promote products at this conference'. Does anyone think that isn't entirely hypocritical? Jack Wow, you know someone has no case when they have to get personal and won’t just stick to the issue.

Did anyone notice the link to the book Podcasting Hacks at the top of this page takes you to the O’reilly website and has an add to cart button right there? Why is there a direct link to purchase a product of one of the sponsors in the annoucement that says “In an effort to keep overt product promotion out of PodcasterCon”?

Not to mention, its really shady to make this annoucement 2 weeks before the event. Far too late for anyone to back out without loosing money. I totally understand Winer’s frustration and anyone who wants to go after him personally re: O’reilly is spinning the issue just like another O’reilly you might have heard of.

There’s a link to buy a product in the same post that says ‘we don’t wanna promote products at this conference’. Does anyone think that isn’t entirely hypocritical?

Jack

]]> by: Steve Eley http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-223 Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:20:30 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-223 FWIW, Brian, a lot of us think you're doing a great job. I don't care about books one way or the other; I'll be there for the people first and the content second, and I don't see how either of those is changing. I think Mr. Winer's overreacting to a highly peripheral event and that his blog posting maligns PodcasterCon unfairly. It's unfortunate that he feels that way, but it sounds like there'll still be a few hundred other people there to meet and share. Keep up the great work, and I'm really looking forward to next weekend! FWIW, Brian, a lot of us think you’re doing a great job. I don’t care about books one way or the other; I’ll be there for the people first and the content second, and I don’t see how either of those is changing. I think Mr. Winer’s overreacting to a highly peripheral event and that his blog posting maligns PodcasterCon unfairly. It’s unfortunate that he feels that way, but it sounds like there’ll still be a few hundred other people there to meet and share.

Keep up the great work, and I’m really looking forward to next weekend!

]]> by: John Findlay http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-222 Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:34:23 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-222 Reeeallly, Dave, everyone knows you have a huge problem with O'Reilly, stemming from the various RSS debacles, your inexplicable fury with at least one of their authors and much much more. I agree with your views on many conferences - I've spoken at a few time wasters myself, and resent it badly - but, again, you undermine your good case. Podcastercon looks like it'll be a good event - just the kind of thing you have advocated - and your actions will only ensure you're finally written out the podcasting story. That you wrote that, on the day you did, suggests a serious lack of perspective. Reeeallly, Dave, everyone knows you have a huge problem with O’Reilly, stemming from the various RSS debacles, your inexplicable fury with at least one of their authors and much much more. I agree with your views on many conferences - I’ve spoken at a few time wasters myself, and resent it badly - but, again, you undermine your good case. Podcastercon looks like it’ll be a good event - just the kind of thing you have advocated - and your actions will only ensure you’re finally written out the podcasting story. That you wrote that, on the day you did, suggests a serious lack of perspective.

]]> by: Jack http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-221 Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:03:01 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-221 The only reasons books would be given out is (imho) to exploit the fact that a buncha podcasters came to an unconference. That exploitation kinda negates the point. One thing that struck me Brian, you said "If any other book author or publisher wants to send me books - about podcasting - to give away I will hand them out AFTER the conference - at the same time the O’Reilly books." Does this mean that Yahoo can put together a 500 copies of 'How to Podcast with Yahoo" books and you'll be passing those out too? No swag seems to be no swag, whats 50 books? It doesn't seem worth possibly casting a shadow on what could/should be entirely non commericial. There is frankly (imho) too much work that needs to be done to worry about pleasing publishers for 50 books, because you know they will send you more than 50. ;) And personal problem is a low blow Rovian tactic. Tsk Tsk. Jack The only reasons books would be given out is (imho) to exploit the fact that a buncha podcasters came to an unconference. That exploitation kinda negates the point.

One thing that struck me Brian, you said “If any other book author or publisher wants to send me books - about podcasting - to give away I will hand them out AFTER the conference - at the same time the O’Reilly books.”

Does this mean that Yahoo can put together a 500 copies of ‘How to Podcast with Yahoo” books and you’ll be passing those out too? No swag seems to be no swag, whats 50 books? It doesn’t seem worth possibly casting a shadow on what could/should be entirely non commericial. There is frankly (imho) too much work that needs to be done to worry about pleasing publishers for 50 books, because you know they will send you more than 50. ;)

And personal problem is a low blow Rovian tactic. Tsk Tsk.

Jack

]]> by: Dave Winer http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-218 Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:04:48 +0000 http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comment-218 I regret supporting this conference. You've really let me down here. I'm going to cancel whatever part of the trip I can, no doubt at considerable cost. I'll make a public announcement about this tomorrow. The bit about a "personal problem" is a low blow. I would feel this way no matter who the publisher is, but it doesn't surprise me that it's O'Reilly. I regret supporting this conference. You’ve really let me down here. I’m going to cancel whatever part of the trip I can, no doubt at considerable cost. I’ll make a public announcement about this tomorrow. The bit about a “personal problem” is a low blow. I would feel this way no matter who the publisher is, but it doesn’t surprise me that it’s O’Reilly.

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